Engineers, Take Notice

peer pressure

Not this time. I agree entirely.

Though I have subjected myself to such in the past

I'd like to thank everybody for all those GAs. This was really very unexpected!

Many Thanks to all of you!!!

Welcome, I only gave you one but the answer was dead on.

What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong and damn the torpedoes.

Brad

"I've noticed a lot of persons calling themselves "engineers" asking questions that a college trained engineer would be expected to know. I suspect that these so called "engineers" are not what they claim to be, judging by the questions they ask. , but be honest about who you are. Does anyone else wonder also?"

Hi Ronseto,

Colleges do not "TRAIN"-they merely "EDUCATE". Training brings out the innate capabilities of a person, whereas Education superimposes/thrusts "Knowledge" without the need for "understanding".

Asking questions is a sign of "Intelligence" "...It is OK to ask the question"

A college education does NOT an "Engineer" make;

It's doing engineering work that makes an "Engineer"

A vast majority of degreed "Engineers" seek non-technical jobs to avoid being exposed as incapable "Engineers".

When someone claims to be an Engineer, he/she carries the responsibility to live upto the name of the profession and therefore is not "idle-ly" claiming to be an "Engineer".

Regards

D.Ramakrishna Naidu

Yeah, me too. I'm new to this forum and I suspect that many of these "engineers" are "in training". I my business, I come across many people who either their company has given these operators and technicians the title for reasons of prestige or these people are simply self-proclaimed Engineers. So, I am not too disturbed by this as it is common practice in the electronic field service industry.

hmmm... and here I thought you weren't an engineer until you got to drive the choo choo train...!!

sorry, just a little levity... <shrug>

I'm not the conductor and I don't get to ring the bell but when this train jumps the track I'm the one who catches hell.

off one of my favorite T-shirts of the late seventies.

To anyone that cares...

I AM NOT AN ENGINEER...

I failed algebra in highschool 1.5 times and dropped out of college after 1 semester... and I love it here! I have had no problems getting answers to questions I've had regardless of my dubious standing in the world of engineering and I think anyone who has to inflate themselves in order to ask the help of more knowledgeable people has completely missed the boat... If you are asking these people a question it is obvious you expect them to know more then you do and if you mis-represent your own knowledge the answers you get are likely to be over your head to... I'd rather be thought of as an uneducated person who is here to learn then as a well schooled person who is here because they don't remember their education... but that's just me...

Ron, I suspect it may have something to do with their professional tital and not their educational tital. A lot of jobs are referred to as engineer such as Field Engineer, Technical Engineer ect. A lot of these jobs are hard working proffesional mechanics and the like that represents a company buy maintaining their products in the field. They probly have many years exsperience and a good understanding of machine installation, modification and R&D. The input from these people often influences future machinery upgrades. Due to their vast knowledge in given areas they are exspected to interact with everyone from the people on the plant floor to the upper echalon whom get to see the big picture(privaledged info). Do to the amount of time they spend on the road I suspect CR4 is a great resource for these engineers because they are limited on how much refference material they can carry. These people can and do make a lot of wheels go around. J.Conway

I have to disagree on this case. I've worked with several new grads that really don't seem to know squat! I've also in the past worked under senior engineers that make loads of cash in salary and bonuses that don't seem to know the basics. Both sides of the spectrum is a pain in the @ss. Seems on both sides the engineer in question is still cheating his/her way through life.

I hope the medical profession is not the same way

bmcneill: You've gotta realize that only managers accomplish anything technical in big corporations and get recognized by their organizations. To get those special bonuses and raises as an individual contributor the only real skill that matters is political skill. The most that you can expect your technical skill to get you is keeping your job when the 10% head count reduction occurs.

Face it, if you are technically skilled out of all proportion to the other people in your department you are a clear threat to your boss. Why? Not because the manager worries about you outshining his technical skills. It's a given that his manager thinks he is a pure genius.

No, the real reason is that he is terrified that his management will expect all the rest of his subs to perform at the same level as the best (you) or his incompetence as a manager will be revealed.

Better that all his subs perform at the same level of mediocrity. After all, if the organization really wants more output the boss can logically ask for more head count rather than be expected to live with what he has and just motivate them all to produce at the same level as you (and hate you in the process).

The whole idea is to never reveal the true depths of your reserve capacity lest the next level of management simply exploit it to their own personal advantage.

Cynical I am? Yes. But this is America and this is how we operate when next quarter's results are all that count.

Oh yeah...... The medical profession is going that way now that their world has been discovered by Wall Street. Sorry, you idealists. There's always the Peace Corps, Doctors Without Borders, the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic or that little empty storefront in a partly abandoned strip mall in the back country of some red state with the nearest hospital 75 miles away.

Ed Weldon

GA for a very accurate answer. You said it well. It was always the "Dumb Arseholes" that became (wanted to!) managers.......thats the way the system works in many companies

The only part you missed is that it is the accountants that have made the world/companies as it is today.......they would rather save a cent today, even though it will cost them a Dollar tomorrow....anybody can make decisions that work when a company has huge profits, its when the profits are marginal that the bums and the accountants drive a company into the abyss. Watch what has happened with Sun Microsystems over the last 3 years........

We have a great saying in Germany, that (in English!) anyone here will understand, you can all use it on a daily basis.....it fits in a multitude of ways......I had it written in large letters in both German and English over my desk:-

"He saves money no matter what it costs!"

It is.....

The pass mark on many exams can be as low as 40%. Slightly worrying if the doc is fresh out of college, but I guess they have to start practicing on someone. If I ever have to get a needle stuck in me, I always make sure a Nurse does it, Doctors haven't got a clue.

Doctors never really get out of "School" mode.

Even when they got to work, they call it a Practice.

Regards,
Sapper

My daughters (one a nurse/technician, and the other a phlebotomist) amd my youngest son (an EMT) would be mightily pleased to read this. I'll be sure to tell them.

And I agree with you. When my wife or I need a blood test sample drawn, we drive to wherever either of the ladies is working and have her do it.

Funny how that doesn't hurt, nor bruise, near as much as some Doctors we've had.

Micah

Yep, it's definitely a case of getting the right expert for the job. In fairness, as Sapper suggests, medicine is a constantly evolving area, but all the same the core skills are pretty damned important. High-fallutin' Doctors often seem to loose the point that they're there for the patients benefit. There are always exceptions, but I can think of numerous occasions when someone in the system other than a 'Doctor' has been more useful. Possibly GP's (General Practitioners, 'family doctor' who is most peoples usual first point of contact in the UK health system) are too general to be expert. Health-care is a reasonable way of showing that arguing the superiority of various training grades is a bit pointless.

For those counting...Eu has 38 GA marks on this thread. Wow.

Ok so I forgot to sign in again, dances with trees here.

So Eu is going to capture the Guru in one thread then???

Mighty impressive. At 50 GA's, we embalm him for posterity.

Curious just what the breakdown of these GAs of EU is: How many were by actual college-educated or college-trained engineers? How many were by PEs? How many were by non-college educated/trained "engineers" as self-styled? then, how many times did each of these non-college educated/trained "engineers" vote GAs for EU? Now that would be quite informative, considering the human nature of patting oneself on the back, such as one would expect from the self-styled non-college trained/educated "engineers".

Just curious!

I was curious also, bringing it up in post #76.

These posts are getting way too large .. . . . . . .. signing off from it.

another time, see ya

Three of his remarks took GA"S from me.

Me and my two little associates degrees. Well 2 degrees and 20 years in manufacturing.

For the sake of shutting you up, I'll break with my normal mode. I'm more than qualified by way of academic and professional qualification (Engineering). As I stated elsewhere, pissing contests over such things are a waste of time. You're either here to have a giggle and share stuff, or you're seeking discord. Those who can, do, and those who can't....well I guess you know that bit. What I've told you is true, but has it never dawned on you that some people may be shitting you ? It's the bloody internet !

Had you demonstrated wit, courtesy, and a need to know, I might have helped your curiosity by proving the aforesaid to you. Guess that leaves you buggered then.

Now does all this rubbish you have written change the validity of my question and curiosity? Consider that, all that does is to say you are one whose votes come under the column of "I am an engineer" so what? All you have done is expose the category of your vote. Does that in any way take away from my greater curiosity?

Have you now succeeded in shutting me up? Sad you seem not to even know the limits of your capability. Some engineer you are. I am here to seek discord? To what end, if I may ask?

You counted a number, and I expressed a curiosity if all that is valid necessarily? Did you not notice someone else show the same curiosity in comments #76 and #200? You have got issues my friend. Good day.

You clearly get about ; http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/message/3830 . It says all I need to know about you. 'Vicarious Troll' comes to mind.

I see, you are another one of the scandalous types: Whenever they can not win an argument or have behaved badly, they are quick to scandalize the other. I have met your kind before.

Yet, let me ask you, did you even read comment # 201? Did you even get the chance to reflect on the tone and quality of the answer? Now compare that yours and you will know what I mean by your scandalous kind.

You'll have to try better than that.

Thanks, again. I wasted my time, and my fingers, even bothering to answer him.

But I still can't stand supercilious bigots, who cannot express a question without a sneer.

Micah

I just checked and found that I am in thirty (30) yes thirty fora, and one time even in the tomorrow-energy forum. In some of them I participated as in the CR4 and in others I do not and in some others yet I simply post the abstracts of the analysts reports of the site www.gbanalysts.com.

Now what problem do you have with that? Is there a requirement that anyone should be in only one forum? What is your problem? My activity in each forum is varied and targeted. That reminds me I just remembered additional two other fora I am a member of. Now what? what about it?

You know there are always people like you have have their agenda in each forum that impels them to behave badly, even as was the case in the tomorrow-energy forum. If you must know the issue in that forum was a critical of the claims about the GreenFuel technologies bioreactor as being less than the developer claims: http://www.gbanalysts.com/Reading Room/Situation Analysis/EnvironAnalysis/ghgmittechslims.html and behold attacks everywhere. hidden agenda everywhere and no objectivity.

Now what is your problem? Did I stop you from having participatory role in several fora? Boy, you really are a petty sort, aren't you?

Duckinpond!

I would have been surprised had you not been here trying to engage in a feast of Shark frenzy attack. When was the last time you and I had been on the same forum in which you had tried to assert superior intellect or was it the worship of you you wanted? What a pisser? I suppose you are here to finish the fight you could not engage in fully because I left you high and hanging?

Your motivation, albeit ulterior-motive, for participation in this thread is just plain very infantile. You should grow up: Every remark is not a challenge of your intellect or conversance.

Give it a rest, dude.

Repeat #220 as often as necessary.

Rabid dogs foam at the mouth, too, don't they?

Micah

Even as is true of non-rabid idiotic inferiority-complex afflicted dogs

I wouldn't have stooped so far as to call you THAT! I was trying to offer you the benefit of the doubt.

But, as they say, if the shoe fits ...

Even as I have offered you nothing more nothing less

Even as I have offered you nothing more nothing less

There's less to what you offer than meets the eye

My question remains: "What is the breakdown of the GAs assigned to you" let those who can answer it do so and let those who can not answer it simply count the answers.

Now you give it a rest if you can not answer it. Thank you.

EditorGBAnalysts; www.gbanalysts.com - Give a boy fish and he will eat may be for a day, but teach him how to fish and he will eat everyday.

...........until all the fish are gone....

Ed Weldon

...........until all the fish are gone....

I do believe that you do not expect an actual remark on this from me, considering the implicit limited interpretation of the euphemism "fish"

Can't feed 'em

Don't breed 'em

The "key-word" as I have already made clear is euphemism. The meaning of that word somewhat informs your statement as reflective of poor-scholarship.

Really! You should sign in and show your true identity

quack quack!

It wasn't meant as a euphemism.

First you tell everybody you have signed off, then you come back to show up your stupidity some more even as you did last time. Don't you feel any shame at your endless display of your stupidity and lack of integrity?

I do not care to explain to you the sense in which I used the word 'fish' even as I have explained it to my friends who have written to me in private and asked, you are just too stupid for me to waste my efforts on you.

Learn from my change of tone that I have no more regard for you even as a mere human being. Now go away and go play with yourself.

Very good!

Incidentally, fishing for you is simplicity itself. One merely needs to use the bait that comes with your character.

First you tell everybody you have signed off, then you come back to show up your stupidity some more even as you did last time

I lied

Don't you feel any shame at your endless display of your stupidity and lack of integrity?

No

Learn from my change of tone that I have no more regard for you even as a mere human being.

There is nothing to learn.

Now go away and go play with yourself.

I haven't finished playing you yet

But are you not doing the same? Your post reeks of flaming, are these not also to stroke your own ego to show that you are ze Superior one?

Sir,

In my first and last reply to a post of Duckinpond, the reply I got was an attack of his his knowledge being superior. I then suggested that we drop it and I moved off, only to read continued attacked on me - even though I had stopped writing - on that thread until the thread ended. Now keep in mind that Dunkinpond has not been on this thread until the attacks by Kris. Do you get a sense of the post of Duckinpond now?

Yet, my posts I can assure you have always been on the issue. But when someone comes out here and asserts flaming remarks impugning of me, as was the case with Kris, then I reserve the right to be flaming. I merely reflect, as a mirror.

Besides, I am not the only one who made the same remarks. If anyone does not like my delivery and is reminded of some unpleasant memories of having been victimized by an engineer, or a PE that is unfortunate, but it has nothing to do with me and I deserve no attack for the acts of others. Thank you.

You have been far more mannerly than I would under the same conditions.....

There is no need for anyone to be claiming the high-road. My question was directed to everyone on the thread and not just Kris, although I had written it under his remarks/comments on the thread. So you are welcomed to react as you see fit.

No thanks. I'll just sit and watch the flames.

So you are welcomed to react as you see fit

Is there a statue of you somewhere that idiots like me can go to and worship?

Better if you start practising by building yourself a statue of yourself, for a start

Wow. Ladies and gentlemen I present to you all...............

A new all time low!

Standing on the side and watching the flames is no longer an option I suppose. Oh how so very capricious we are?

Standing on the side and watching the flames is no longer an option I suppose.

It's not often one gets to be entertained by anothers propensity to spontaneously combust

It's in his backyard. One of his "friends" that communicates privately told me so, in the "please help, I'm being held prisoner by a narcissistic cultist whacko" note that he sent out.

Agreed. Ugly mental picture. Off to bed, with leather skin in place for tomorrow. No more answers from me, to this one. Careful choice in future of whom I spar with. Much more fun with people I've learned to like, and those I've not yet met, but will undoudtedly learn to like. Not enough time in life to spend it on unpleasantnesses. - Micahd02 Comment #260

Indeed confusion of the mind is demonstrated by the contrast between the comment #260 and the current one above, is truly a character of s suffering dog, by which I continue to be proven right as per my assertion in Comment # 257:Even as is true of non-rabid idiotic inferiority-complex afflicted dogs

So I guess one can now say that I have been vindicated. The issue has always been a case of idiotic inferiority-complex afflicted dogs running wild.

So I guess one can now say that I have been vindicated.

Nope

Well, I meant every intelligent person, and I certainly did not include you as I do already know that you are not one. Otherwise, you have recognized my exclusion of you as well.

Who are you to exclude anybody?

Even as is true of non-rabid idiotic inferiority-complex afflicted dogs

most prosaic of you to say so. ...........

is it me or are you in jingojungle speek?

Kris,

I write to the moderators if I contacted and asked specific questions, and hence if I have have to as the situation dictates and so again you show your breadth of knowledge by supposing a standard letter.

Secondly, sticks and stones may be break my back but words would not and i simply fire back as intensely as you give it, my friend. I am not offended whatsoever, but if you think you have any views then answer the questions that was posed otherwise be quiet.

A simple observation was made and instead if answering the post, all there has been on this thread is just one load of deprecation of engineers and PEs and and commiseration of victimization by engineers and PEs. Such abject nonsense, you have decided to defend.

What is this with the inferirority complex parade here? What a cry-baby, his academic qualifications has been challenged.Glad you have no time to dissect my "nonsense" and yet you did have time at the onset to dissect a question with insults, as if your qualifications have been challenged. So now you will be shutting up, after all?

So now you will be shutting up, after all?

say please

WERD.

Micah

Yeah! What the squirrel said!!!

Editor........I'm giving you a GA for that

Do not need one. My participation here is targeted and does not require any grade marks. Friends i have made on this forum, who communicate with me privately, know this.

Then know this..........if you intend on intimidating or are suggesting a threat in any way you will have done yourself and this forum a great disservice.

I demand an explanation from you at this moment what it is you meant by this remark:

Friends i have made on this forum, who communicate with me privately, know this.

balderdash !

balderdash !

not good enough

Do not need one. My participation here is targeted and does not require any grade marks.

don't get any anyway

Some small points I'd like to clarify:

I really don't need to be worshipped (just send the money).

I don't have a superior intellect.

I was not aware of being left 'high and hanging'. Quite the contrary.

However:

I do recall you had no idea what you were talking about then.

Result being:

Others agreed you had no idea what you were talking about then.

The way I remember that discussion it was you who told me to move on. I further recollect your rudeness by informing me that the matter of discussion, and I quote you directly "doesn't concern you".

Today I learn from you I am a hedonist, a pisser, an infantile, and all parts inbetween.

Coming from you I consider that to be high praise

GFY (Good for You)

Result being:

Others agreed you had no idea what you were talking about then.

Truth is open to recollection does it not? Hmmm. I am sure that nobody else ever challeneged my post again. Only you kept trying to spin the correctness of your answer in the context of everybody else's, and after which each one got off the thread - because nobody wanted to be bothered after each spin-response from you.