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Engineers, Take Notice

01/14/2009 11:18 AM

I've noticed a lot of persons calling themselves "engineers" asking questions that a college trained engineer would be expected to know. I suspect that these so called "engineers" are not what they claim to be, judging by the questions they ask. It is OK to ask the question, but be honest about who you are. Does anyone else wonder also?

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#278
In reply to #274
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 7:45 AM

It was nonsense what you proposed. It remains nonsense to this day.

And yes...truth is no-one challenged your post because I exposed it for what it was.

In other words nobody wanted to waste their time. I gave you the benefit of that distinction.

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#282
In reply to #278

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 7:53 AM

Yet what everybody else wrote was not in agreement with what you proposed, right? BTW how then was it that you kept coopting my proposal into everybody's response in course of spinning your proposal to the dismay of all. Go back and reread it and convince yourself that nobody was agreeing with you - which was your motivation to keep spin-doctoring your answer into everybody's response. I simply laughed on the side, as you showed up yourself

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#290
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 8:14 AM

wrong:

I had no proposal. I disagreed then as I do now that your being a lobby for some ridiculous "alcohol fuel will save the world" campaign....which, incidentally smelled of BS, not barley, merely co-opted a misbegotten government campaign that you adopted as being your own.

You went further to state that the brewing and alcohol extraction process was tantamount to being singular with all other chemical processes. That IS verifiable.

Do keep laughing. Most did at the time.

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#291
In reply to #290

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 8:23 AM

You went further to state that the brewing and alcohol extraction process was tantamount to being singular with all other chemical processes. That IS verifiable.

Now this your recollection/ comprehension of what I wrote really answers the question even as I had thought then, that you had no good comprehension of what I asserted; and also now more than ever I am sure that I made the right decision in not bothering with you. You see this above explanation of your comprehension of my assertion says it all.

I made a basic statement that you can only verify if you are knowledgeable in Photolytic reactions and Radiolytic reactions Chemistry, both being areas I suspected you were not informed in. Now I know I was correct.

Besides I was not interested in disclosing any proprietary concepts I was engaged in, and I am still engaged in.

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#292
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 8:40 AM

Thankyou for clarifying I had absolutely no comprehension of your assertions.

Would they be anything like self-contained feedback?

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#293
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 8:50 AM

I made an assertion about your knowledge level in photolytic and radiolytic reactions chemistry, do you not think that perhaps you should address that first - you know like saying I have knowledge of those areas?

While at it let me repeat what I said:

Given ethanol, all organic chemicals that can be produced from crude oil, can also be produced.

Now there, compare this assertion with the rubbish you had earlier ascribed to me.

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#294
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 9:30 AM

Here we go again.......

Given ethanol, all organic chemicals that can be produced from crude oil, can also be produced.

Ed....what are you talking about? Unless they're making petroleum base aether what sense does it make to crack the ethanol off've crude? Would it not make more sense to make a uni-molecular hydrocarbon base lubricant? Enlighten me.

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#299
In reply to #294

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 11:11 AM

The object is CAPABILITY. Do you now get it?

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#279
In reply to #273
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 7:46 AM

"I don't have a superior intellect."

I dunno know about that. You seem pretty damn smart for a duck.

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#286
In reply to #279

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 8:01 AM

smartest duck I know. definitely smarter than this one.........

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#220
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/22/2009 6:02 PM

Amen!

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#223
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/22/2009 7:19 PM

Thanks, Kris. From one on the other side of the "degreed vs trained" divide, I appreciate these words from one who is clearly qualified to straddle the divide.

Ben "Kris" Hur LIVES!

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#222
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/22/2009 7:15 PM

[such as one would expect from the self-styled non-college trained/educated "engineers"]

I doubt that you have any interest in the truth of the answer, with that kind of pejorative view.

To be expected from a holier-than-thou, nose-in-the-air, his stuff don't stink type such as you reveal yourself to be. One is left to wonder, if you are so good, why do you feel the need to defend your "title"? Do you have an "I Love Me" wall, too?

And note, I refer to you directly and personally. I don't stoop to the Ad Hominem attack you deliver.

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#231
In reply to #222

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/22/2009 10:26 PM

Puckered at both ends he is. - Yoda

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#246
In reply to #222

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/22/2009 11:58 PM

No, I defend not my title. No, I do not have an "I love Me" wall, ...now there!

Look the discussion here centers on non-engineers styling themselves as engineers and yet asking elementary questions. Support has been extraordinarily shown to one who seems to deprecate the intent of the original question. Such extensive extraordinary support for the deprecation IMO begs the question "what is the breakdown of this extraordinary support?

Very sensible and worthy question in my opinion. So let those who can answer it answer and let those who can not answer count the answers. I also believe this to be of very sound advice. Thank you.

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#250
In reply to #246

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 12:15 AM

I don't disagree with anything you've said here. But your egregious attack on those let their experience and demonstrated engineering ability determine whether they, in fact, claim the title of engineer was irritating and arrogant in the extreme.

I, too, would be interested in knowing the breakdown. I, too, could in fact count them up, and parse them, myself, with not more than two or three uncertain assignments among them (I've been privileged to converse with most of these folks many times, on may other threads, at CR4). And, if I decide to do so, and no one else does first, I'll share my results, my methodology, and all the other information necessary to let you, and everyone else, decide on the validity of the information presented.

And I'll do it without unecessarily insulting anyone who took the time to read, or write, on this, or any other thread.

Perhaps you'd like to reread your own first post.

And understand, as Kris, and AndyGermany, and who knows how many others, can attest, that my response to you was totally out of character. I said what I did to alert you to the offense you offered.

And, among the other things I've learned from this thread (being a slow and hard-headed learner) is that it really doesn't matter whether others call me an engineer or not, as long as my work can speak for itself, satisfies my customers and supervisors, causes no one any harm, particularly due to failure to perform as intended and advertised, meets all specs, etc., etc., etc.

One of my supervisors, himself a perenial student of engineering (two earned Masters, working on a Doctorate, openly debating with himself about what to study next), and a capable engineer and manager (though he lost track of his roots when he moved to project management, and lost the trust of many of us who had known him through the years. Became a management flack, he did.), once asked me why I kept talking about wanting to go back to school and earn my engineering degree, since I was already a fine engineer as it was. This man, with many paper credentials to his name, and a fair amount of performance to validate them, then said to me that a degree would only serve to SAY that I could do what I already did, and that he thought I would be wasting my time, if I pursued a degree for that reason.

On the other hand, and I took his advice seriously, and have done so many times since, he said I should consider where the gaps in my current knowledge were, and study those courses which would serve to fill the gaps.

In short, pursue knowledge. Don't pursue a degree.

I have, and with 35+ years of engineering behind me, and many happy bosses there also, I am satisfied with the path I chose.

AND my wife and kids (shoot, even my gradnkids) love me.

What more do I need?

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#332
In reply to #246

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 6:17 AM

Look the discussion here centers on non-engineers styling themselves as engineers and yet asking elementary questions.

You're full of it. You've been lurking on this and other internet forums waiting for the opportunity to embellish yourself at others expense.

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#334
In reply to #246

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 6:49 AM

"what is the breakdown of this extraordinary support?

Offhand I'd say it is in the theatre of those who are gracious enough not to call you a horse' ass.

As for myself I'm too much of a gentleman to call you a horse' ass.

Were I not I'd be inclined to call you a horse' ass.

But I won't.

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#190

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/21/2009 2:22 PM

wronge thread, woops

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#194

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/21/2009 2:46 PM

I'm not an engineer. But I've played one in Video games.

So if you have any engineering related questions, please feel free to ask.

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#195
In reply to #194

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/21/2009 2:56 PM

ROFL!

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#242

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/22/2009 11:31 PM

GA's can be acquired when you become member of the secret hidden circle within CR4, for a modest fee (and your firstborn)

oops, now it is not secret anymore

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#258

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 12:44 AM

The pot is being stirred but the issues go on.

You can have your peeing contest but it is neither entertaining or more importantly enlightening.

Emotions do not a battle of wits make. They only enrage and dewit.

Agree or disagree I care not, but do not waste my time. Time is life not money I can make no more time.

Ok you have been admonished just don't kiss and make up, I would have a hard time getting the picture out of my head.

Brad

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#260
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 12:48 AM

Agreed. Ugly mental picture. Off to bed, with leather skin in place for tomorrow. No more answers from me, to this one. Careful choice in future of whom I spar with. Much more fun with people I've learned to like, and those I've not yet met, but will undoudtedly learn to like. Not enough time in life to spend it on unpleasantnesses.

Thanks, UV. It was good advice.

Micah

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#302
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 3:43 PM

Any time, Good Advice not only is the hows but the whys and the logic to discern the validity of them.

Brad

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#266

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 3:21 AM

Six months ago I could not spell 'Engineer', "now I are one!"

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#267
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 3:26 AM

You have become a Diplomingenieur?

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#295

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 9:34 AM

Dear Ronseto,

having skimmed through a majority of the posts (going past 288), I feel that most have missed the spirit of your post. In summary;

1)Mere Qualification (Graduation) does not make one an engineer.One has to practice the profession to be "Recognised" as an Engineer.

2)Working (with or without an engineering qualification) as an engineer makes one an Engineer and is enhanced by peer recognition-based on the "visibility" of the results of such work.

3)To be honest about who you are, the need to be called an "Engineer" arises only in the very initial stages of one's career as a practitioner of ENGINEERING and by the accumulation of engineering achievements, one's reputation as an "Engineer" makes one an ENGINEER PAR EXCELLENCE, regardless of having "Qualifications" or not. One is then welcomed into the fold of PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING bodies such as I.E.E.E.,I.E.(I), I.I.P.E. and that's all that really matters in one's commitment to a lifetime career in engineering.

I believe "ENGINEERING" is a verb and not a noun to be considered for nomenclature or classification.

Regards,

D.Ramakrishna Naidu

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#301
In reply to #295

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 3:18 PM

D.RAMAKRISHNA NAIDU, Very well said and by all means a very Good Answer. You have the wisdom that comes from many observations and not from being told or taught by another how to do your duties or what is politically correct to fit in. I have observed many people that accomplish great things do to their tenacity not their sheep skin or lack their of. You seem to be of the ability to stand alone without any approval from those around you or having to require their support or approval In order to function. These are the qualities that I look for in a person, I despise those that have a need to be in charge but are unable to accomplish a high quality result without being a part of a group that he then tries to steel the thunder from. I believe the greatest results are achieved by those left to act upon their own observations and abilities, those whom take ownership of their actions, understand the importance of accepting their faults & failures for this is a great resource to draw upon. The people I choose are the ones that have a reputation of achieving and expect nothing in return except my respect. Even though I believe you had an excellent answer I only give GAs for exceptional talent being shown and not for exceptional statements and expect no less. J.Conway

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#303
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 8:49 PM

A fine response indeed.

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#308
In reply to #295

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 9:14 PM

Hear, hear.

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#297

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 10:03 AM

I find this blog now completely boring.

Some of you were (mostly) total Gentlemen, in spite of heavy provocation. I am sure you know who I mean....

Some of a you, a very small percentage have "outed" yourselves as being "TOTAL A****OLES", I am sure you also know who I mean!!!!!

Logging off, byeeeeeeeeeee

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#305
In reply to #297

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 8:54 PM

Following suit. Wait for me Andy! Where are we going?

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#309
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 9:19 PM

Hey, you guys got room for one more? Can I hitch a ride down to the corner?

Aww, shoot. Now I'll have to walk, and Ed's still raining on everything around here, and making life miserable. Oh, well, wet and walking beats sitting around trying to figure out what that nitwit's saying.

Gone, guys. Hope to see most of you in the future. Ronseto, I kind of think you got a lot you didn't bargain for, and despite the fact that I somewhat disagreed with you, I think I did it honestly, and in a gentle fashion. Thanks for starting a good ride, but next time, try to keep a handle on who comes aboard, huh?

Thanks, I knew you, being a gentleman, would do so.

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#313
In reply to #309

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/24/2009 2:59 AM

Sad, you still do not seem to learn the lesson that you can not stray from the topic, coyly insult people and expect to always get away with it.

Note, this is exactly what happens when human beings lose sense of their nature and choose to act as pack-of-dogs attacking people who question their collective mob rationale.

Next time just stay on the issue, debating the topic objectively, and you will have finally set on the path of true intellectual pursuit.

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#315
In reply to #313

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/24/2009 6:50 AM

and you will have finally set on the path of true intellectual pursuit.

Like yours perhaps?

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#318
In reply to #315

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/24/2009 5:57 PM

You would not recognize intellect even if it bit on your behind, considering you do not even read well enough to understand the set of words "can be" in the assertion:Given ethanol, all organic chemicals that can be produced from crude oil, can be produced [from the ethanol]; as meaning CAPABILITY.

Do embrace your stupidity and grant yourself some modicum of self-respect. What ashame that each failure to show intellect sets you off engaging on endless attacks as now and as before.

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#320
In reply to #313

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/24/2009 6:14 PM

Sad, you still do not seem to learn the lesson that you can not stray from the topic

Then, what are you doing introducing a discussion of chemistry and ethanol in a thread about people posing as engineers?

Just asking...

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#321
In reply to #320

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/24/2009 6:55 PM

3Doug,

There were two parallel discussions going on at this time: One with Duckinpond: A a finishing up of an issue started some three months ago, that the fellow seem unable to walkaway from.

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#322
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Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/24/2009 9:02 PM

Correction:

I forgot all about that discussion until you reminded me. It really wasn't all that interesting at the time nor is it now.

to further the point:

Seeing as you continually harp on it perhaps the issue rests with your hot air balloon?

And to the point:

Your insipid and recent prosecution of me has exposed you to be amongst the most pugnacious of pyogenic pygmy-nisms the pusillanimous proportions of which border on the psychotic.

love

Duck

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#323
In reply to #322

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/24/2009 11:04 PM

I had thought of responding, but I knew if I waited long enough, someone would come in with something substantial. I would have pointed out that he was the first to mention any of the specifics of the chemistry being discussed.

And speaking of something substantial, having caught the gist of what he was trying to promote, and evaluating it based on what little I remember of the 2 semesters of chemistry I had, his idea seems as substantial as the Jenks Tornado. Jenks is a suburb of Tulsa known for 4 things: winning state high school football championships, antique stores, Riverside Airport (even tho it is officially in Tulsa) and a power plant. Sometimes a column of condensing steam will rise from the plant and reach the base of a thunderstorm. It will appear like a tornado, but it doesn't spin, and it doesn't move. Sometimes storm spotters or chasers will call it in as a tornado, but it's not. In other words, it's just a bunch of gas and water droplets.

BTW, Duck, I appreciate your talent for alliteration. Reminds me of Fibber McGee. He often let loose liberal levels of lavish, lush, and limitless lines of loquaciousness, that is until someone brought him back to reality.

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#324
In reply to #323

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 3:29 AM

When he carried on attacking people who got so bored of his prattle they left, I thought enough is enough, and hit the 'report' button on his post to micah. I was going to say so on forum because I don't care who knows, but thought the guy would just come back for more rambling insults. I don't like hitting that button, but the guy has done nothing but seek disruption. If I get real bored, I'll count up the number of people he's insulted on this thread. Wouldn't be a true reflection, because there's probably a lot of people who didn't join simply because of editor.

btw, editor, I said I couldn't put up with much more. That doesn't imply I wouldn't read or post. You don't need to tell me how you feel, or what you think. If CR4 admin approve of your posts, that's fine by me. It may even be possible that we meet on another thread and get along, but as far as this thread goes, further chat between us seems pointless.

By way of general summing up my view ; GA's are fairly meaningless. Qualifications are meaningless. Member titles are "fun" additions to the way CR4 works, but nothing more. This is a discussion place, not a dry question and answer site, so humour and off-topic do have their place.

ta-ta for now, all.

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#333
In reply to #324

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 6:39 AM

WHAT? You must be diissing me. Do you mean to imply that Ed is not the reason that I exist on Cr4? Had I only known earlier I'd still be grovelling at the feet of the monument I've built of him.

how diss-appointing

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#336
In reply to #333

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 7:00 AM

Oh, Ducky, you're quacking me up here !

I'll have to remember to re-visit here when Wimbledon is on the telly.

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#337
In reply to #336

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 7:13 AM

You've got the monument facing the wrong way.

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#326
In reply to #323

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 5:52 AM

He appears to enjoy setting people up who are less than capable of defending their position.

"Vicarious troll", when applied in that sense, best defines his need to position himself to make it seem that he knows what he's talking about. "Vicarious troll" also indicates his humiliating those he's set up. It's an apt description.

A most unsavory character if I do say so myself.

let loose liberal levels of lavish, lush, and limitless lines of loquaciousness

you're very good at it yourself!

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#338
In reply to #323

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 7:24 AM

3Doug,

This is my last response to you on this thread.

After you have studied enough Chemistry, including Photolytic and Radiolytic Reactions Chemistry and then Chemical Physics, and Dry Reactive Ions Chemical Reactions let us talk again.

At the moment I can see that I have no reason to engage you or even try to react to you. Your response above rationalizes my posture. good luck

BTW, the way it is this sort of dismissal that has been eating up Duckinpond for the past three months; and because he also thinks I am a Govt Lobbyist, a speculation I have also refused to address to his curirous dismay.

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#340
In reply to #338

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 7:34 AM

Nope....

I don't think you're a government lobbysist. I think you've adopted a gov't lobby position as your own and solely on your own for purposes of your own.

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#341
In reply to #322

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 7:35 AM

Duckinpond,

About three months ago, when you said that the assertion could not be done, I simply said to you [ I paraphrase]: Okay, lets us drop it, lets move on. This dismissal seemed to have so incensed you that you went shouting - again I paraphrase - what does that mean you think you are the one who knows everything; and you carried on until nobody posted on that thread.

Now here you are again still going and coming, and carrying on. I am, however, going to dismiss you again as before, but first I will let you in on one reason for my dismissing you three months ago. I lived in Canada for five years and got to learn about the Canadian ways somewhat, and I find you to be very unCanadian - you may take this anyway you want.

Now then here we go again: Okay lets drop it and lets move on, you do not have the requisite knowledge for comprehending the chemistry, particle physics, chemical physics and chemical engineering sciences supporting my assertion. Thank you.

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#342
In reply to #341

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 7:40 AM

coming from you I consider this a compliment.

Too bad you didn't learn any humility while you were here.

please do not return

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#343
In reply to #341

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 9:23 AM

you do not have the requisite knowledge for comprehending the chemistry, particle physics, chemical physics and chemical engineering sciences

I am but a simple and humble machinist.

As your vote indicates I must have discovered that my geophysics degree was nothing less than totally useless. As did those certificates issued by government and industry that are forever cluttering up the orifice.

However, having being one of six persons to be licenced under the Weights and Measures Act I discovered that my calling was to the navigation and survey industry. But mostly to my clients, some of which really need to have spot on charts and positioning gizmos to stay alive and/or remain in this particle dimension. Today I have passed this licence on to one of my former employees.

As you have indicated my lack of blessings in the particle physics department I am therefore compelled to inform my clients of the travesty I perpetrated when I built some of the mechanical prototypes they happen to be using at the moment (although it was the Canadian gizmo that buggered the Cern gizmo my whatchamacallit thingy had nothing to do with it...honest!).

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#300

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 1:34 PM

With due respect to those who have contributed those worthwhile answers on this platform I now humbly bow out of this discussion.

To those who were less than offended..........apologies

To those who were offended.........GFY (good for you)

All others......stay tuned

over and out

For your viewing pleasure I include a self inflating virtual boorus torus

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#307
In reply to #300

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/23/2009 9:11 PM

Thank you, and good night.

Now THAT, was cool.

Micah

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#345

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 7:34 PM

I wonder was it all a cry for attention?

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#346
In reply to #345

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 8:31 PM

Knee jerk reaction Epke.

Sometimes known as auto-response syndrome.

But if it got attention then it worked.

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#347
In reply to #346

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 8:36 PM

well lots off posts so i guess, yes

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#348
In reply to #347

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 8:41 PM

He peed on my carpet.

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#349
In reply to #348

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 8:50 PM

Damn, it really tied the room together

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#350
In reply to #349

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/25/2009 9:05 PM

Needed stitching.

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#351

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/26/2009 1:29 AM

Hi all,

It seems as if we are all behaving like the engineers we are. I am not sure how this argument started but I am just curious as to who is winning the p*ssing contest?

Regards,

Craig

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#352
In reply to #351

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/26/2009 2:02 AM

The one with the largest bladder?

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#353
In reply to #352

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/26/2009 8:36 AM

I didn't know that it was waulking. On second glance it looks like roadkill.

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#354
In reply to #353

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/26/2009 11:48 AM

Amazing what duck piss can do.

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#356
In reply to #354

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/27/2009 7:16 PM

But not as much fun as watching a PO'ed duck!

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#357
In reply to #356

Re: Engineers, Take Notice

01/28/2009 1:58 AM

You don't mean....... .Yeah, I like mine extra crispy

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